Soft and Short Field takeoffs and landings

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Prmetime
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Soft and Short Field takeoffs and landings

Post by Prmetime » Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:06 am

Greetings All!
I'm in the process of getting a single engine commercial add on rating and I'm practicing short and soft field take offs and landings. I have read my pilot operating handbook (all four pages of it) and I don't recall any specific technique for either of these. What I have been doing is as follows:

Short Field - take off no flaps. Get the tail up and keep the tail wheel about three inches off the ground. If I maintain the proper pitch, the airplane flies off the ground around 60 mph (by myself) or 70 mph (when others are on board.

Soft Field - take off with the first notch of flaps. Raise the tail as early as possible and maintain the contact with the ground until Vx (70mph) and then fly away from the ground. Maintain ground effect until you accelerate enough to raise the flaps.

Can anyone tell me if either of these techniques are correct or if there is any mention of either of these techniques/procedures in the published POH for a Stinson 108-3? Thanks for your help.

Karl
N596C
Karl A Vogelheim
S108-3 N596C

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lawheelock
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Re: Soft and Short Field takeoffs and landings

Post by lawheelock » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:31 am

Karl,
It is not covered in any POH which the Stinson really does not have. We have an "Owners Operating Manual" and a "CAA approved operating limitationsl" which is a Flight Manual and is required to be in the aircraft.
Neither publication discusses short or soft field operation.
Here is my technique
Soft field: 1st notch of flaps. Full power (though a rolling start helps). Hold some back pressure to take the weight off the mains as soon as the wing starts generating lift.
Fly off and relax back pressure when over 65-70 mph to climb out.

Short field: Full power, again a rolling start helps. Pop the first notch of flaps after reaching around 50 mph. Climb out at 65-70 mph until clear of obstructions.Let speed come up to 80 and then milk the flaps up.

I have used these techniques for more than 46 years in my 108. For many years I operated out of a 1700 ft strip that was soft at times and always short because all takeoffs were east and all landings west due to a 100ft high 345 KV power line across the strip about 500 ft inboard of the west end. Prevailing westerly winds. One way strip. At that time, 150 hp Franklin. Kept fuel weight low and was careful to operate with passengers only with minimal tail winds. Downhill to the east and uphill to the west.
Larry Wheelock. '46 108 now with Lyc 180 but no longer at that one way strip.

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lawheelock
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Re: Soft and Short Field takeoffs and landings

Post by lawheelock » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:33 am

PS Karl,
I got my SE commercial in my BC12D Taylorcraft way back when and my instrument rating in the Stinson a little while later.
Larry

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Prmetime
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Re: Soft and Short Field takeoffs and landings

Post by Prmetime » Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:16 pm

Larry,
Thanks for the reply. I shall look at those techniques and try to experiment with them. I have a multi-engine commercial courtesy of the Air Force and an equivalency exam. I need to get the SE Commercial add on for future plans (like a CFI). I also need to start flying the Stinson under IFR rules but I haven't done so yet. Little goals I wish to accomplish.

As for the POH versus, Owner's Operating Manual, I knew POH wasn't the proper verbiage but I didn't want to go out to my Hangar and get my aircraft forms to look up the proper name for it. Thanks for setting me straight.

Karl
Karl A Vogelheim
S108-3 N596C

loganboles
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Re: Soft and Short Field takeoffs and landings

Post by loganboles » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:00 pm

Karl,

As usual, Larry is pretty much right on. For best performance, "popping" flaps at 50 or 60 mph would be best, but an examiner might not like any configuration on the takeoff roll. If you aren't tall like Larry and I, or if you use a shoulder harness, it may be tough to get to the flap handle anyway.

You mentioned CFI...go for it, we need Stinson qualified instructors. Were you an IP in the military? If so, you can get a CFI from the FAA for anything in your military records. If you get a multi and instrument CFI, then the single rating would be an add on which you could get with a designated examiner.
Logan Boles
Logan Boles
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1947 108-2

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Prmetime
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Re: Soft and Short Field takeoffs and landings

Post by Prmetime » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:44 am

Logan,
Regrettably, I was an Air Force Instructor Navigator but I am not an Instructor Pilot. So I shall have to do it the standard way and take the various tests, get/give instruction, and then take a checkride. Then I need to get instruction in being a tail wheel instructor. I can see how that would add a little extra gray hair without any experience. :-)

As for the popping of flaps, I'm not sure I am long enough to do that and see over the dash for a T/O. Using the first notch of flaps and holding the wheels down until Vx (70mph) was pretty effective in practice and so I will stick with that for the moment. I'll practice with popping the flaps if I can. If I can practice that and feel comfortable enough with that before the checkride, I will use it. Otherwise I will stick with what I know for now.

Karl
Karl A Vogelheim
S108-3 N596C

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truckerloyd
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Re: Soft and Short Field takeoffs and landings

Post by truckerloyd » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:37 pm

Do what you can do per the POH. Anything outside of that, you are a " Test Pilot". Try to explain that to your Insurance Adjuster!!. The information in the Stinson Manual is the only justification to do what you do. Me and my 108, are not on the approved test program. If the numbers work, then do it. Stop this silly " What ifs ". Sheesh. Tired of reading this kind of stuff. Won't pay attention anymore. That is all.

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